In a relatively short time, social media has turned the world on its head. The opportunities and challenges that social media and social advertising have provided advertisers will be debated for decades to come. 

In this episode of Paid Media Coffee, we take a high-level view of social media as the glue that holds marketing together. 

Our host, Kelly Mancuso, is joined by Director of Social Media Amanda Oliver, Paid Social Specialist Meleigha Millman and podcast co-creator Haley Stauffer.

Kelly: Welcome to Paid Media Coffee. This is Kelly Mancuso your host and today we are talking about social media. We're going to be continuing our conversation around the convergence of traditional and digital advertising but as I mentioned honing in on the role of Social and how that's really the glue that holds everything together.

So today, I'd like to welcome my guests. First we have Amanda Oliver. She is our director of social media at Nebo. Welcome Amanda. 

Amanda: Thank you. 

Kelly: We also have Meleigha Millman. She is a paid social specialist at Nebo. 

Meleigha: Happy to be here. 

Kelly: And also welcome back Haley Stauffer. She's a paid media manager at Nebo.

Haley: I'm excited to be here again. 

Kelly: Awesome. So let's get right into it. Social media, you know, when we think about this shift from traditional marketing to digital, social obviously plays a really big role in that. You know from the first Facebook ad that was promoted back in 2006. I remember when ads started on Facebook back in the day to the emergence of other platforms and ads within them as well, like YouTube, Twitter, Pinterest, Snapchat, etc. What are some of the ways that you guys think that social media has really changed marketing in general? 

Haley: I think the biggest change is how the way we target people specifically based off of their unique personalities and likes and interests. Facebook was one of the first places that people really expressed who they are and and talked about things that you couldn't really get from any other kind of medium before, so it was kind of the pioneer in terms of really targeting people for their uniqueness.

Amanda: From a very high level I feel like social media advertising has really blurred the lines between what is advertising and what is just a part of your everyday life. So, when I first joined Facebook, there was no advertising. It was simply just a social media platform. And so really when I opted into liking pages and then started seeing content from those pages, I never really thought about it as advertising. I really always thought about it as opting in. And it's content that I want to see that I'm subscribing to. Then as advertising was introduced, it really just felt like it was so natural because I was being served ads of things that relate to me in my life.

As a whole, it’s blurred the lines. What is an ad and what is just part of your feed? 

Meleigha: I got a Facebook in 2007 with all my other friends in seventh grade and we were all like, oh, yeah, let's get Facebook. I don't even think it came up to me that you know there are ads on there.

I don't think it really hit me until later in high school, almost going into college, when I was actually taking a class about it. And there are so many different things that I didn't notice. Just by seeing sponsored my brain just wasn't clicking it together because I wasn't looking for it. 

I want to follow them and see what Nike's doing today. I want to see what this other brands are doing today. Not necessarily thinking they're putting those products in front of me and trying to be like "Hey, come buy it."  I just wanted to show my support for a brand but I didn't really put all those things together, which is absolutely hilarious because that's what I do every day now. It's my job now.

Kelly: It's subliminal messaging and influencing you and on what your career path was going to be.

Meleigha: I guess so! It's been in my life for too long now. 

Haley: To follow up with that, we were kind of introduced to it and we didn't really realize it but now we expect brands to be on social. We expect that. Two-way communication between a brand and the customer and I think that's also changed marketing in terms of customer service.

You can reach out to brands through social media so easily now and communicate this is what's wrong. Say my order was wrong or I don't like that you're doing this and brands can communicate back to you so much easier instead of through traditional which was just a mass communication.

It could be much more personalized. 

Kelly: It really is a two-way conversation. 

Amanda: And it's a lot more interactive in that same way. You're not just being served a television ad or radio ad where you have no interaction. You're able to engage with it. Comment on it. Share it. Message them. As your part of the story.

Meleigha: To further your point, Haley, I literally got a product in the mail and  it was a phone case and it was chipped a little bit and all I did was DM them on Instagram. They're like, just send me a picture back, and we'll go on and send you another one. Just tell us your order number. And they said keep the other product since it's defective.

That's fine. And literally I handled a whole transaction and didn't even have to go to their site and just did it all through IG DMs. And then also I tweet at brands sometimes when something is wrong and then they'll Tweet back at me. I tweeted a Movie Pass when it was still a thing because I couldn't get my Movie Pass to work and they said, "Oh, we're so sorry. Send us a picture of your receipt for the movie and we will send you a gift card for that amount."

That's kind of how I handle my customer service, at least now for myself, as I just go to social media.

Haley: To bring it back to marketing, in a sense. It's like you expect or you look at brands that have good customer service like Movie Pass. That was a great example. I'm trying to think of other brands off the top of my head that have just extremely good customer service. 

Meleigha: Delta is great about it, too.

If you're tweeting things about a bad flight and they'll Tweet, okay that was a bad customer service experience. You know, let's get this handled. 

Haley: Exactly. And that's a part of their marketing now is that we're going to think about you past the purchase and have you be a continued customer.

Kelly: Yeah, I it needs to be quick. Because we expect it, you know, you reach out to them. You're not satisfied if you don't get an immediate response and that's why I think Twitter is a really good way of communicating with brands and you know letting them know if something is going wrong.  

Haley: Bringing it back to targeting people, which has really opened the doors from traditional to digital and social media has played such a big part. Analytics has been such a big change that we've had coming from social being able to track people's first click, second click, all the way down to the purchase, and I think social media has just been such a big part of that and it's constantly evolving.

I know that we're able to. Pixel different things and I and -

Meleigha: And all the other ways that we've made direct response a brand new thing because billboards used to be the main form of direct response. It is still even though it's not measurable and it's really not trackable.

But now with all these other pieces of social, it's just really redirected everything on what we call direct response and actually makes it trackable. Measurable. I mean with all those pixel placements, we could go on for days with the amount of things we can do to make things more measurable, but it's really crazy how it's redefined it.

Kelly: Not only just measuring action and engagement but also the data that we can look at to see what the people that follow us as a brand are also interested in and that can help  tailor your strategies and understand who you're reaching and who the people that want to engage with you more are doing and what else they like.

Meleigha: Also seeing how they engage with you from platform to platform. Yeah, because I act completely different you want to see different things on different social media platforms. 

Haley: LinkedIn verses Facebook.  

Meleigha: Yeah. Yeah. Completely different. 

Haley: Exactly. 

Meleigha: What you're doing in the world to help, for instance, you know how you're being eco-friendly when Patagonia released something on LinkedIn about them donating back all their tax cuts to a bunch of different eco-friendly companies to help with forest fires. They did that on LinkedIn but then they're over here on Facebook having their ads running for their products. It's a completely different feel of what's going on. 

Kelly: For sure.  So let's shift the conversation to advertising and how social media has had an impact on traditional and digital advertising and then also vice-versa, how has advertising impacted social media?

Amanda: I'm tying in with what Meleigha and Haley were just talking about. It's really kind of set the bar for analytics. In the past, we pretty much were only measuring with traditional media buys potential Impressions and it was just so direct-response driven and now with social media absolutely everything can be tracked. We know the ROI on each campaign we have running and we can deliver to the brands and clients that we work with, you know, an exact analysis of what's working and what's not. And it's really set the bar and kind of challenged some of those more traditional media placements. How do you adapt and show your worth the same way that social advertising is able to? 

Haley: I do think that traditional has incorporated social media a lot more over the years. I know watching a certain show or even an advertisement or commercial.  It'll have kind of a hashtag or something to play along and we're also using a lot of user generated content in traditional verticals. So, I think that's really good to see that traditional is trying to incorporate social and not compete with it as much. 

Kelly: More often we're seeing ads where social is the destination, you know, we're brands are trying to push engagement on their social channels rather than driving people to their website or to their store or something. Social is the goal. 

Meleigha: It's exactly that and one of the biggest spectacles of traditional marketing, at least in my opinion, comes with the Super Bowl, right?

So, you've got all these things leading up to the Super Bowl. Pretty much all companies used to just be like, okay, we're going to have our Super Bowl commercial and that is it. Now, they're doing things and they're having traditional ads running before. Doritos did that one year and they had all these different versions. And additionally a lot of companies now are putting out teaser trailers on their social media and then it comes out on the actual Super Bowl and then vice versa the end of the story comes out after the Super Bowl on their social media site, right? Additionally people are releasing their full commercials on YouTube way before so a lot of the allure of the Super Bowl commercial watch it's kind of gone down in a certain sense because they're already releasing them before. Because I know all these people are cutting corners and not really watching as much. I think it's crazy how much it's impacted that one large spectacle, alone. 

Kelly: To go back, Amanda, to your point about analytics, that triggered a thought about conversation measurement, as well.

I know something that we've done with some of our clients when we've launched a really big campaign is turn to social channels and measure, you know, whether people are talking about brands. See if there's some kind of uplift in conversation. Increase in sentiment. To see if our ad campaigns that are on other channels potentially have had an impact in brand awareness and conversation. And that's really amazing that we have, you know that a place where we can turn to and then look at that kind of thing. 

Haley: It's interesting to see that it can start on traditional with a commercial. Meleigha and I were actually just talking about this with that Nike commercial that came out earlier this past year with Colin Kaepernick. And it wasn't really portrayed as much on social or perhaps it was but it was a really big TV spot. And it's interesting to see the sentiment that played out on social media that you can actually measure. So it's cool seeing how traditional vertical and social media are all coming together and being able to use social media as an analytics to track how people are actually feeling about the ad.

Meleigha: And the craziest thing about that one in particular is I mean the amount of UGC user-generated content that was put out after that because people had so many different feelings. It was like when LeBron left Cleveland people were burning their Nike gear saying they're not going to support Nike because putting Colin Kaepernick on that commercial and saying what they're going to say, but the whole byline of that entire promotion was "willing to risk it all" right? So put it on the line of risk it all. And that's exactly what he did and that's exactly what Nike did in fact. And it really paid out for them in dividends because though I'm seeing my friends parents saying, "I'm never going to buy from Nike again," all my friends and I are say "that's awesome that they're supporting this" and their stock went up.

It's just really amazing to see all the different sentiments people have whether it's positive or negative. And though there is so much negative surrounding it, it came out totally okay with their sales and increased them and actually increased their overall brand advocacy as well.

So, I think it worked for them. 

Haley: Definitely. 

Kelly: As marketers, you know, obviously there are a ton of different channels where we can focus our effort and focus our ad budgets as well. Not just in social media, but beyond that traditionally and digitally as well, you know, we've got TV, print, search, social. How do we decide where to put our budgets and as social popularity and usage increases, do you think that it's going to take away budgets from other traditional and digital channels? 

Meleigha: I think it will at some point but the issue is with a lot of clients in particular. There’s a project where they don't have a CRM system that links. Did a lead come from Google? Did it come from Microsoft ads AKA Bing? Did it come from social? So, it's really hard to identify how those budgets are going to shift if we can't track with CRM system the quality of a lead coming from somewhere.

But once that gap kind of starts to go away I think it will definitely start to shift a little bit more for sure, but it also depends upon all the things coming along with GDPR and anything and everything in that regard and people are opting out of sharing data.

So, I mean, I'm really interested to see where it's going to be in about six months too. I mean five years from now. It's going to be insane but six months from now still going to be crazy. 

Amanda: I mean it's already happening in the political arena with marketing. I believe it was Barack Obama's campaign.

He was one of the first candidates who really took a big stance on social and built a large following on social. In the most recent US political election, I mean no matter what side of the aisle you're on, the fact is that towards the end of the campaign over a million dollars was being spent per day on Facebook on highly targeted advertisements focused on very specific people, and it worked. So it just shows you the power of shifting those dollars to something that's able to target really specific people and really specific locations with specific kind of beliefs and thoughts and the power behind that. And now of course, it's our job to take a step back and say, is it ethical?

Haley: Is it ethical? Exactly.

Kelly: Obviously, Facebook's already doing some things to kind of limit that for all advertisers, but even more so for other types of advertisers.

Meleigha: The HEC going into the oh my goodness, so you got employment housing and credit. That was a really fun switch. You can't target anything by age. Can't target by gender. Can't exclude locations, can't do ZIP codes. There's just so many things that they're restricting you from now, and I mean our performance dipped for a good but now it's coming back up.  

I mean, you're pretty much liking what you like so you're putting yourself on a certain side of the aisle. So, people are choosing that on social. And so with the targeting aspects that we have you are only liking what you like. Right? Most people don't like something that they dislike. I mean, I personally like a bunch of different news sources.

So, I get all sides of the story. No matter what it is or, for example, I'm a big Nike fan, but I still also like Adidas on things because I want to see everything. But what it does, is put you into so much of a further smaller sect and you're in such a smaller group of like you're only staying in your Niche and taking your opinions.

When these ads especially political ads are coming in, that group is so niche to begin with they're already going to believe that fact and go with it. So it's just take I don't want to say taking advantage of but it's really harnessing on that group that's so small. That could actually make such a big impact.

Haley: So coming back to the idea of social taking away from traditional's budget a little bit. I see the issues that we're talking about whether it's ethical to be able to have so much power. But I think at the same time platforms are also taking it on responsibility on themselves to make sure that it is ethical.

I do think though in the future and I'm probably because I am in digital that we will see more budget being shift towards. Digital and even social media because of the interest targeting that we were just talking about. I think with traditional it's getting a lot harder to target people based off of a specific TV channel.

When you're on a social platform, it's doesn't matter what they're watching. It's right there at the right time. 

Kelly: Right.

Haley: And same with radio or print, you know, you have to pick the right radio station the right magazine whatever it is right newspaper. With social, you're just picking that right person at the right time. And I think that's going to be so much more valuable in the next few years then to marketers in general and they'll just end up moving more of their budget towards digital. Hopefully. That's what I see. 

Kelly: Yeah. I mean, I think that big brands are always going to leverage the power of you know, a big TV buy and other traditional mediums as well, but linear TV is still currently the top in terms of consumption when we're looking at video advertising and video consumption specifically but we are seeing a really notable shift away from linear TV into digital. And the increase or the rate at which that's increasing is pretty fast. So, you know, I don't think that people are going to abandon linear and traditional advertising altogether, but I do think there's going to be a little bit of an evening of the ad budgets as well and you know, maybe it will surpass traditional as well.

But. Budgets go where eyeballs are and right now eyeballs are increasingly on digital channels and social media specifically. Especially with younger audiences as well. So in order to reach them, you really need to take advantage of that and you know create a strategy that incorporates all of the channels that these people are engaging with.

Meleigha: I believe there's going to be a lot more of a shift to digital because a lot of people right now still don't want to invest in it because they don't understand it and they don't get it and how it can help their business.

They don't even want to spend a thousand dollars because it's social media. We're just going to put it out there. It's organic, right? No, you got to pay to play. You have to or it just doesn't work. 

Amanda: I have actually seen a bit of a shift in mindset. So I've been in marketing for about 10 years and I remember when I first started out working in social.

Really battling with people. They just did not see value in Social at all. It was just a place you go to post pictures and make you know comments with your friends, but I have been surprised by seeing some of those people the higher level c-suite marketers really start changing their mindset. And I believe part of that boils down to our ability to provide the analytics of what's working and show the value in that. So kind of excited to see that continue to shift and.

Kelly: I mean, my mom is more active on Facebook than I am. 

Haley: I know it's great when I hear my mom say something about "oh, I just bought these new shoes off of Instagram" or something I'm like, yes, that's that's working. We're making a difference for our clients. So that's a great way to just tie back in and see all different ages.

Meleigha: My mom called me one time she goes. Hey, I got one of your clients ads. Am I allowed to click this one? Because you told me not to click the one that's on Google. Yeah, we already paid for the impression if you click it's no big deal. She's said, alright cool. She literally called me and asked, can I do that before I do it? I said, well, then that's fine. Live your life.  Appreciate it. 

Haley: That's impressive though that she even understands no idea of clicking my mom would never. 

Meleigha: She used to work in the same industry as the client. So, I said when you're doing research on X, please do not click the first thing that pops up that says ad next to it because you're going to make us pay.  Appreciate it. And she said, okay cool. 

Kelly: So, obviously people are adopting social media at all ages, but it's especially as I mentioned before especially prominent with Millennials and younger generations. So what do you guys think is going to be the impact or what is the impact of that on social media and marketing on social media?

Meleigha: There's a fine line with what we can get for anybody that's under the age of 18. There is a lot of data we do have access to. There's a lot of data we don't have access to. And we can't store as much personal data as we want from those and knowing that I mean the social media platforms.

Yes. They're storing X amount, right but are targeting can't be as on point due to that fact since certain things aren't being stored. But at the same time using those demographics of we know people are on Tic Tac tic toc scuse me. I can't I can't talk today. I mean I used to do tic tacs all the time those were my favorite mints.

So I guess it's on the brain but Tick-Tock everybody's there now and I mean people are still trying to figure it out and then there's a post that Rashidi put up about, you know, Mark Zuckerberg pretty much down playing its competitive space with Instagram stories, and it's really interesting to see those two together. And I've started to see a shift in the way my Instagram explore feed works and the way it looks and starting to look more like Tik Tok and turning to see more funny content and memes and other things everywhere else.

That's taking it in a more organic point but it's just different to see all the other platforms, you know going against each other and how it's affecting the different age groups and what people are trying to consume on each. 

Haley: We've talked so much about Facebook this episode because it is the primary social media platform.

I feel in terms of the amount of people that are on it, but I also think it's so important that we touch on other platforms like Tik Tok I was about to say Tik Tok, Pinterest, Twitter. These are all just as important and it's something that we have to keep in mind because they are actually influencing each other like Meleigha was just talking about with Tik Tok it's influencing and Snapchat. Snapchat also has heavily influenced Instagram with the idea of stories and filters. So social media marketing is impacting each other, but I think it's also, you know impacting marketing as a whole. 

Amanda: And just knowing that younger audiences, how quick they are to adapt and try something new and drop something that's not fitting seamlessly into their lives.

Really challenges all of us as marketers to- we have to stay on our toes and you know. It's part of our job to stay on top of news releases on a daily basis and really think about how does that impact us in our daily jobs, you know at work? How does it impact each of the clients that we work with? And we all have to be willing to adapt our strategy immediately in order to kind of, you know, stay with this audience and make sure that the campaigns that we're delivering for our clients actually, fit their needs and are delivered to them in a way that suits their lifestyle. 

Meleigha: I remember when I was younger. I remember the first spot I really saw ads was YouTube because I mean YouTube is this huge thing.

I remember when we were younger everybody would watch anything and everything on there. And when I started getting ads I was so confused. I was thinking, "why am I having to sit through something for six seconds before I can watch what I want to watch?" I don't want to do this. 

Kelly: Before my cat video. 

Meleigha: I can't watch my cat video what's up? But literally I just remember seeing it there and it's- we kind of forget how big YouTube is in that fact because it's not just kids watching YouTube. It's not literally adults. It's everybody. I mean people go there for tutorials. You can sell products that way. I was looking up how to build a fire pit to help my mom with something one time and every single product in the Lowe's videos was sponsored underneath to find this product. And you could just buy the product from the video and Tada. And it was super cool and super integrated.

Kelly: One thing that I think is really cool is that there are so many Brands now that are putting out social first marketing campaigns. So, you know brands that where their entire presence is really focused on social we're discovering brands and products right there in our Instagram feeds and buying them to trusting it and buying it.

So I do. I'm not going to say all the time, but 

Meleigha: I do it. I do it a lot. I do it a lot. There's three or four different things that I can think off the top of my head that I've bought because I thought, oh that's a cool idea and I clicked it just to look at it and once being in it was, I guess the way the UTM parameter loaded it goes, oh, thanks so much for coming from our Facebook page because you wanted to check it out: Here's $20 off your first purchase and it was a $50 item. So I was like heck yeah I'm gonna buy this. And then once I bought it, I got another ad about, I think it was 30 almost 60 days later, but I saw it because I saw it a bunch on a couple different platforms, but it was how do you like your products?

If you really like it and you want to reorder here's another $20 gift card. Because I probably should have been running out by that point in time. So, they were following up on me, too, because I didn't enroll in the subscription. They were telling me, okay well if you want to buy it again, that's totally cool if not, whatever but here's $20 if you want to.

Haley: I don't know if it's because we're in social media marketing in general, but when I get targeted really well, I want to click on it and I want to buy because you're doing a good job.

Kelly: I'm thinking great job. I'm so proud! 

Haley: You got me. 

Meleigha: Your ad was beautiful. I will comment on ads and be like whoever is on your social media right now.  

Haley: I know the social media team at one point actually brought up brands that are doing a good job at Social Media Marketing.  It's one of my favorite things about Nebo and one of my favorite things about this podcast in general is we just have these conversations talking about other brands and other marketers that Inspire us. 

Amanda: We have monthly round-ups where we bring to the table, you know inspiration other people who are doing it well and. I have switching back to what we were just discussing. I recently bought a house and so I'm deep in home renovation research and my number one source for how I'm uncovering tools tips tricks is influencers on Instagram.  Oh, yeah. 

I'm just following a ton of kind of DIY Home Makeover influencers. And that's where I'm learning about all of these products. I recently discovered a product where you don't have to sand down your cabinets to repaint them. It's a six-step process and you apply de-glosser first and and she has tutorials where she shows how to use it.

And when I did more traditional Google searches to find out about this product. There's very little out there about it. And so really this company is sending product to these home renovation DIY.

Haley: Influencers

Amanda: Makeover people and that's how they're getting the word out there and it's working. I'm buying that product and I'm going to use it in my kitchen.

The only reason I know about it is because they sent it to an influencer and then they use it in their renovation and shared it. 

Kelly: That's a really good point about the research aspect of it too. I mean you have a whole community of people out there. So, not even just turning to influencers to see you know what they're doing gain inspiration from them.

But also how many times a day do you go to your social media channels and see somebody put a post out there that's like "hey, I'm going to Paris next week any recommendations?" Or "buying a new mattress. What do you guys think is the best one?", you know, we're actively asking our community of people to give us their recommendations on things and that's where then you know, we can also advocate for the brands that we support specifically so having that relationship there.

It's you know, even though a brand isn't involved in that conversation. It's a place where their name is being brought up and you know can have that connection. 

Kelly: Awesome well to wrap it up. I want to talk about the future. So looking forward. What are your predictions for how social media is going to intertwine with traditional advertising and other advertising channels in general digitally as well. 

Haley: I think it will continue to play off of each other a bit.

I don't see anything huge changing right away. But I do think that we'll still see some of these two screen experiences. I think for brands to really succeed in the future. You're going to have to continue your brand story on both traditional and social channels all digital channels. So you have to really be aligned cross-channelly with your marketing team for sure for it's a really succeed because if you're seeing one thing on your Facebook, and then you'll see a completely different type of story on traditional channels, that kind of could provide some confusion and you need to have that consistency for it to really make an impact. 

Kelly: 100% 

Amanda: And piggybacking on what you just said. It really requires more traditional marketers to be more open-minded and accept the fact that things can't always be done the way they used to be done. And they have to work together as a team and say you are in charge of the out of home billboards on interstates, how does that tie into all of the other channels that the company you're advertising for is running? And really just being able to adapt or you're not going to have a job in a few years because somebody else is going to come in and they're going to be able to adapt quickly and kind of bring that full integrated strategy to the table.

Haley: Another thing that Kelly mentioned is social being the destination. So I think we'll continue to see this and perhaps even more where traditional channels go to our Facebook page or go to our Instagram for more information. So I think that it'll be highly playing off each other. Like what I was saying earlier.

Meleigha: Facebook might be splitting from Instagram and WhatsApp depending upon all the different accusations coming at them right now. So, I feel as if that could change some of the data availability and then also increase the cost that we have on those platforms.

That's one piece as people start to come there more it's going to be more expensive. Ironically the recent advertising costs have dropped in the past couple of months do the fact of all these different data privacy issues. They're all the social sites are pretty much making sure it's a little bit cheaper right now.

So, that's one piece and the second piece of us talking about, you know going there to explore your product and see what's going on. Just kind of how Amanda is talking about when she just bought a home. I mean people are going to do that more and more and more and it's going to come to the point that it's all going to be AR and VR too. Especially with the new apps piece that Facebook is releasing and being able to AR and VR ads. So there was a one and ad that came out recently can't remember what company it was, but you could literally try the color of lipstick on. So you didn't have to go to the store and that's the most annoying thing in the world is you can't picture what it's going to look like on you. As a female. I've got to figure this out and my brother says, I don't know what it's gonna look like on my lips either. He's better makeup than I am, but he thought it was a super cool ad and he got it and texted me about it.

And so you're going to be moving toward AR and VR and that fact and it's just getting really pushed by Gen Z for sure. Can't wait to see that expand.

Kelly: I think another thing in addition to being aligned cross-channel and you know understanding these new ad formats and doing all this it's imperative to create content and messaging in ads that work with the channels that were executing them across. So, you know thinking through what that looks like and how people are consuming content and interacting with different channels and then, you know adapting accordingly cool.

Well, thank you all for joining us. 

Meleigha: Thanks for having us. 

Kelly: Of course. I know that we touched a little bit on measurement and some of the challenges there. So our next episode's actually going to be focusing on that. We'll be addressing the challenges of measurement in this converging advertising world. If you have any questions or comments thoughts, feedback, recommendations for future episodes.

Content please email us at Paid Media Coffee at Neboagency.com. And also please like subscribe review rate the podcast. Thanks so much.